Marisela Treviño Orta
I got a chance to chat over Zoom with the incredible and lovely playwright Marisela Treviño Orta who I had the great pleasure to work with a few years ago. I’m so excited to have Marisela as our first featured playwright of the month.
Marisela’s play Somewhere: A Primer for the End of Days, is set in a post-apocalyptic world where the extinction of insects has led to the extinction of birds and so on down the food chain. There is no more pollination and food is quickly running out. Two survivors, a sister named Cassandra, who is an entomologist, and her brother Alexander (Paris), are following a group of butterflies, maybe the only ones remaining, as they migrate. The butterflies settle on a farm owned by Corin who has allowed his friend Eph, his girlfriend Sybil and her sister Diana to stay with him.
Here’s my interview with Marisela:
Laura-So your play Somewhere, A Primer for the End of Days was a commission from Temple university. Let’s talk about that.
Marisela-Yes, that’s correct. I believe in late 2018, they reached out to me. The director who works there, Lindsay Goss, reached out to me and in 2019, February or so, I went out to the university to meet the graduate actors. The commission was specifically to write a piece for the grad actors which really did inform the shape of the play. I usually don’t write ensemble pieces, but I was trying to create a piece where everyone has a moment to shine and their own little arc. Usually, I focus on 1-2 actors and they’re my main characters. But I felt an obligation to the MFA actors that they all have something meaty to chew on in the piece.
Laura-I noticed that because they all have monologue moments and I loved that. I was thinking, “oh, this is so great! We get to know all these characters.” But I can imagine how that was different. Did they ask you to write a play that addressed an environmental issue?
Marisela-No, I was given carte blanche. They said, “you can write about whatever you want to write about” which was amazing, but at the same time I was kind of wracking my brains, “what do I want to write about?” That was the first visit to Temple. I was still searching for an idea and by the end of my visit I had come across some article online, probably from Facebook, and it posited that question, “what would happen to the world if all the insects disappeared?” And I was like, “oh! There’s the play.”
Laura-That’s awesome!
Marisela-It was definitely that article, but I had also been rewatching a series of French films that I like. Of course, you’ll remember Amelie that came out in the early oughts. Geneau did two other films with another collaborator before he did Amelie and it’s much darker than the first two films. Delicatessen is the name of the film and it’s set in a time when crops are failing. The dystopian times are beginning but people are still getting dressed up and going to work. That’s the thing that really struck me that I wanted to carry over. I guess watching that movie and then coming across that article kind of intersected and germinated into something new.
Laura-Did any interactions with the actors you visited have anything to do with it or just mainly the article and film?
Marisela-Getting to know the actors gave me somewhat a sense of their personalities that came across, so I did actually assign parts. As I was writing I was thinking this actor will be this person and this actor will be that person on stage. But I don’t remember really asking them “are there things you want to do” because that was just too much to throw into the mix. It was more just getting to know them as people and hoping that some of that would carry over into where I saw them in the play.
Laura-Wonderful! How did it really evolve for you when you started digging into climate change issues and the extinction, the mass extinction that the play addresses? Did that start to affect your writing? As you learned more and more about climate change, did it change the direction the play was going in for you?
Marisela-I don’t know that it did. I feel like the research I was doing was just to follow down paths of instinct I had. I had heard of the humongous fungus so that was something to bring back. I was like “Where is it? Pacific northwest.” It did in some ways inform how it shook out because then I was like “Well I have to put some of them in the Pacific northwest.” That was something that kind of connected there. And even just realizing “Oh, okay, where do Monarchs go, like what is their path? If it went a different way, it would be out of sorts. Okay well that kind of works with the broken ecosystem. But I think it was more trying to flush out some of the impulses I had but I remember learning a lot about truffles, understanding that relationship with trees. And I thought “That’s fascinating!” Or even just going deeper into something I already knew about insects. I grew up with a lot of science in my life. My father taught earth science at my local junior high, so there was a lot of science all the time and I feel very comfortable just researching science or recalling things I learned over the years from my love of National Geographic or documentaries, things like that. So, it was really fun bringing in that movie Them with the giant ants. That’s a movie I saw with my dad, that he introduced us to. It just kind of stays with you, I mean there’s these atomic ants, these giant ants (laughs). It’s really a lot of fun.
Laura-Those B movies!
Marisela-With the scientists that always come in with “Here’s my exposition about how this happened.” The dangers of atomic energy parables.
Laura-What about the character names? There’s a lot of mythology there.
Marisela-There is, absolutely. And I think it all stemmed from wanting to have an entomologist. She’s a stand in for all of scientists, the scientists who we don’t believe. And so, seeing them as Cassandra figures was a very interesting kind of layer added on top. And I also grew up with a lot of Greek mythology, studying Greek mythology as a kid. And so, once I had Cassandra, I was like, “Oh! Paris is her brother! Holy cow! I didn’t know that! I don’t know why I didn’t know that.” But I didn’t want to call him Paris for some reason, so let’s call him something else. And so, everyone ended up having connections to Greek mythology. Although, Sybil, I have a hard time remembering the exact source, but I know Sybils were prophets. And Eph and Corin are the ones that people usually scratch their heads about them the most, but they’re connected to the story of Sisyphus and how the two cities, Corinth and I can’t remember the other city, but that’s how I derived their names. I wanted to connect them to that story of futility and have that intersect with the people on the farm.
Laura-I love that. I did notice that theme that some of the characters are really struggling with, that sense of futility and they’re bored, which I thought was really interesting. The idea of boredom is nothing that you really think about when you think about something apocalyptic like this. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Marisela-Well I think it has to do with where they are on the scale of an apocalypse, right? Because if you were in complete survival mode, if it was Mad Max, if you were at that point of crisis, there probably won’t be that much time for boredom because you’re so focused on the need to survive. But at the very beginning when things are breaking down, and we’re losing our technology and we can’t watch TV and there’s not really light to read at night, I think there is that idea for boredom to creep in. And how we have to go analog and read during the day and read with books and return to that.
Laura-That’s so interesting. Sometimes there’s a return to the times that were simpler, but usually it’s in a more idyllic way. And this is just-they’re stuck.
Marisela-Yeah. It’s the only option versus having other options.
Laura-I think it’s so interesting when Cassandra talks about her baby butterflies. During their final stage she says that “maybe it’s the death shroud but from the inside it seems like it’s the world coming to an end in the pupa, but really it’s a beginning.” And I noticed there’s a lot of-maybe it’s going to be a new beginning, maybe it’s not. There’s a lot of uncertainty about that. Some of the characters really want to move forward and keep trying. How does that play into your process?
Marisela-Well I think it feels very connected to the idea of a play itself. The idea that there’s a beginning and an end to a play and that your end is actually sometimes a new beginning for your characters. That the play could go on, like it’s a different play that begins in that moment. One of the themes I was exploring in the play was this idea of the future and how do you imagine a future? The world is going to move on without you. Our life is like that right now. It’s just that we can see it in a situation where it’s very clear. We can see the days are numbered versus not knowing. Maybe it’s knowledge, trying to grapple with that knowledge, an impending death on the horizon. People are struggling with that in the play which I think, at any point when someone is struggling with knowing that they’re in the process of dying whether it’s through old age or through a diagnosis that there’s going to be a coming to terms with acceptance that life is going to end and also maybe move on without them. Because the world, the earth couldn’t heal itself. The hope is that not all life would be destroyed if we keep messing things up. But a lot of life would suffer as a result of what humans do. So, it’s not just our species but so many other species that would die as a result of…well already we’ve got a lot of extinctions happening. Did I answer your question (laughs).
Laura-Oh yes! You’re doing great! What about the theme of decomposing, the mushrooms, the plant that are killing the other plants. It’s kind of like nature’s attacking itself.
Marisela-Yeah, so recently, and I was thinking about this play because I was in conversation at Middlebury (College), we had a panel and I started thinking what’s happening in the play is sort of a sped-up cycle of life. If we were buried in the ground, we would decompose and turn into other things. I remember that poem, I can’t remember who wrote it, “Bury me beneath the peach tree because you can then eat the peaches,” like you become part of life again. You’re broken down and become nutrients so you’re part of this cycle of creation and destruction in a way. That life begets new life. And in the play, it seems like the environment needs us now. It’s not waiting for the decomposition it’s sort of skipping ahead a little bit in the process because in the crisis that the planet is in in the play that it needs this to happen. If there’s going to be survival, we have to do it this way. Someone has to jumpstart it, skip the death part and just go to new life coming out of the old.
Laura-Is that what happens to the people who become absorbed in the plant?
Marisela-The way I think of them is that they’re turning into the things that have gone missing. They’re either turning into plant life or in Cassandra’s case, insects, which are very needed. So, on this Instagram reel the other day about environmentalists who had gone to, I want to say orchard but I don’t know if that’s correct for citrus plants. But it was for oranges. And they said as soon as they got out of the car they just stopped and listened, that they always do that. They stop and they listen when they get to an orchard. And there was silence. There was nothing. No insects, no birds, nothing. And as they started walking through the rows of the orange trees, they saw people up on these ladders in cherry pickers with paint brushes and they were putting pollen on the plants because they had put so much insecticide into the environment to protect their plants, they had killed all the insects and then all the birds left. And so, with no insects and no birds you have nothing pollinating. I don’t know why I went off on that tangent.
Laura-No, it’s all sort of connecting together with the whole through line of the play really. So, looking into all of these different plays about environmental issues I think the one thing that a playwright or a director might worry about is people going “I don’t want to see that. Oh, I don’t want to feel guilty. It’s just going to make me feel guilty.” And I really liked the way that you didn’t do that. And there were maybe two instances where the blame was really spoken about. One of them is Diana says that basically, we’re just a miracle, we’re here solely by accident and luck, and that “too bad the smartest species on the planet turned out to be the most selfish.” And I wondered, were you thinking about how this was going to come across to the audience or was it just more of a flow and everything just came out?
Marisela-I think it was more of a flow. But I hope people are going to not just raise awareness but ignite something in our audience to make them want to think about doing something or make them change themselves or change their local government, or whatever. But by showing them the potential outcome and the effects kind of like sit with well how do we avoid that fate? But usually when I write, I don’t always plan out story. I know where the beginning of the story is, I know the first scene and the last moment, the last visual image. So, I know how it ends and how it begins but most of the rest of it is a process of discovery once I’ve kind of figured out who the characters are, the way they react, they’ll be the ones that kind of decide what gets said and what gets pushed up against. Diana’s that kind of person that’s going to point it out. That this is messed up. The world that we’re living in is messed up because we messed it up.
Laura-Exactly. Well, whether that was on purpose or not, I thought that was a good balance because when I did come across that comment I was like, whoa! Oh yeah, we did this to us, we screwed it up. But if it was really preachy and happening throughout it would just not be a good play.
Marisela-Yeah, there’s this thing about repetition, depending on how often something gets repeated you can develop a, what’s the word, you’re desensitized to it. So, unless it’s building and evolving, the repetition of something, then it starts to lose its impact. From a writing perspective I do think about repetition and being thoughtful about when something gets repeated whether it’s an image or a theme is coming up again.
Laura-Makes sense.
Marisela-But by the end of it I’m like “okay, what’s going on here?” I’m kind of talking to people and realizing, okay this is happening again, and this is kind of occurring. And how do I be more thoughtful about the placement of those things and how it builds over time so that it won’t lose impact and also won’t feel like…because if it’s all at the same level of preachiness, we can build up to that level, but if it’s all the same level, you’re right, people are like “ugh, again!”
Laura-Right, right. I don’t want to be told off through this whole experience.
Marisela-Not through the whole experience, like at one moment.
Laura-Exactly. That image of the people becoming parts of the trees, which is from the story of Daphne, Apollo is pursuing Daphne and her father turns her into a tree to basically keep her safe.
Marisela-Someone does, yeah, yeah. I think Poseidon.
Laura-Oh, Poseidon, okay.
Marisela-I think.
Laura-I think you’re right.
Marisela- The Daphne story came secondary. I found myself creating these moments where people described images of people and plant life merging or plant life coming out of or grafting on to people. And to kind of keep it in the world I was thinking “Aren’t there myths where people are turning into things because there’s a woman that gets turned into a spider that kind of describes where spiders come from. So, finding the myth about Daphne I was like “Okay, that should be in there because people are going to want to know why people are turning into plants? Why is this happening? And me trying to figure out the answer as I write the play.
Laura-I can understand that! So, Diana who’s burying things. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Marisela- I don’t know why she initially starts burying things. When that popped up in the script, I was just like what is that? It’s got to come to a head so how do I use that for the story and also try and make it make sense. So sometimes it’s just this initial inspiration and hopefully it doesn’t feel too shoehorned in but you’re just like “This feels like her thing.” So, I don’t have a good answer for it except that it’s really interesting that she’s burying these objects that she calls it implanting them even though she knows they won’t necessarily grow.
Laura-I think it’s kind of fun that there isn’t an exact explanation because that’s a really fun thing for the actor to play with.
Marisela-Absolutely.
Laura-So, let’s see…so Cassandra seems to be sick at the end and then she basically, does she turn into the butterflies?
Marisela-Yes.
Laura-Okay. That’s what I thought.
Marisela-She does. Yeah, yeah. So, I’ve always thought of that last moment as, Cassandra’s in a cocoon.
Laura-Oh!
Marisela-The sleeping bag. The getting sick part, if you want to create an analogy to butterflies, in their cocoon state their bodies liquify. In order for it to be recreated into a butterfly…it’s crazy! Like they go into this cocoon and then they liquify. That’s just their process of metamorphosis. And then they turn into this new creature. It’s fascinating!
Laura-Oh my gosh, I didn’t know they liquified!
Marisela-Nature’s crazy! That’s amazing!
Laura-It is!
Marisela-How does that get figured out as the most successful way to live?
Laura-Yeah!
Marisela-So her getting sick is sort of like, I guess a parallel to that step in a butterfly’s own transformation.
Laura-Awesome. Do you think this play, and plays like this, could make a difference for people in terms of the climate?
Marisela-Yes. I say that with such confidence because of the last production of Somewhere. And it wasn’t the production per se, but it was the students that kept coming up to me and talking to me about how the play resonated with them. And when I was talking to their professor who is my friend, she directed it and had brought the play to Middlebury, we were talking about it, and she was like “they can see this on their horizon when they think about their futures.”
Laura-Wow.
Marisela-It is very present in their minds in a way that it would not be for the older generation and those a few generations ahead of them. And to have every single person that I was introduced to, whether it be a cast member or someone behind the scenes, or the crew, everyone that worked on that production talked to me about what the play meant to them. And so, that tells me that theatre can do something. I mean, we always hear that theatre can inspire, you hear that, but when you actually have people who were just so moved… And I was like, wow, and that was moving to me. I had only worked on this play for a year before its world premiere. And I kind of relegated it to this category in my head with my body of work, of commissions. With commissions, you wouldn’t have written that play if you hadn’t been asked to and paid. And so sometimes they come from interesting places. Thankfully for this one I was given a lot of leeway. I just had to have a certain cast for the first show. But because I hadn’t really worked on it, I was like “Oh this play needs so much work.” And then I went to that production and saw the way that it was impacting the students, and this play that I had kind of relegated to my college plays I was like, “it’s still a piece of art that is having an impact in the world.” So, I do think plays about the environment can absolutely inspire people to change and to also have different ways to think about the future. Different ways to build a vocabulary to describe what they want, what they don’t want.
Laura-Do you think you’ll ever write another play that has climate change as a topic?
Marisela-I did! It’s still a work in progress. I think it needs a lot of work. And I was just reading an article recently and I was like “Oh…that’ll change the whole course of this play.” You know when something new happens and you’re like, “Well…okay.”
Laura-Thanks, science!
Marisela-Thanks a lot! No, I’m glad. It’s this environmental policy change that happened in California that’s going to reduce the amount of plastic going into the ocean. And I was like “That’s exactly what the play was talking about. That’s great! How do I write that into the play?” Because the play takes place in DC and on the east coast. So maybe that fact that it’s federal policy versus state policy is the change I’ll need to make. But I need to do it quick, because, who knows? The change might happen. I was given a commission last year by SPARC which is formerly the Livermore Shakespeare Festival. So, SPARC stands for Shakespeare Performing Arts Center. And they have an initiative called Science at Play and they started it two years ago. They’re commissioning new work specifically about scientific issues by artists of color. And so, I was given the topic of the environment. I was like “Great! I just wrote an environmental play. I can do this!”
Laura-When is that going to make its debut?
Marisela-Oh, I have a lot of work to do on it and SPARC was very interested in it but they’re in the middle of a capital campaign to build a huge facility. So, I think the play…it needs to be inside versus an outside performance which is what they usually do. Because there’s a lot of projections and something that needs to descend from the ceiling which you can’t do outside. You have to find a different way to do that.
Laura-That would be difficult.
Marisela-And that play, a lot of it is about our oceans and the amount of pollution that happens and how the fishing industry is one of the biggest polluters.
Laura-I did not know that. `
Marisela-I learned a lot. I had no idea. The fishing industry, they lose a lot of plastic nets and equipment, but they also dump a lot intentionally, which is not good because those nets can also catch fish when they’re down there where they’re discarded and kill the animals there. So, it’s very bad for the environment. And that play is called Basilosaurus because the other half of it is a professor that’s looking at the evolution of whales. And this one prehistoric whale Basilosaurus was an apex predator that died when the climate shifted. Antarctica became a continent in the south and froze and drew water out of the oceans which changed the shorelines, so it lost all of the shallow bays that it thrived in and Basilosaurus is not evolutionarily designed for deep dives. So, the prehistoric whale that was smaller and more compact became the ancestors of the modern whale because they survived the change. But it was just interesting, like here is an animal at the top of the food chain, the very top, and a shift in the environment does it in. And drawing that parallel between us as apex predators, superior species, that we can also be toppled.
Laura-That sounds so good. I can’t wait until it comes out.
Marisela-Well now I have to rewrite half of it so that it falls in line with this stuff I just learned.
Laura-What else is coming up?
Marisela I have a commission from last year with the Latino Theatre Company in Los Angeles. And so, I’ve been developing a play without dialogue and in May I workshopped what I had done with this Mexican theatre company so it looks like that collaboration is going to continue so I need to get my passport so I can go to Mexico and spend some time there. And develop the piece with them. So, I’m doing that and that is about the DACA community, the Dreamers. Then, I’m starting research on a history play. I’m writing about a specific Spanish Inquisition case that took place in the mid-1700s. So that’s got a ton of research. It’s going to take a lot of time to write but I’ve been wanting to write it for years so…
Laura-Now’s the time.
Marisela-Yeah, I was like “I gotta do it.” I was always pitching it to people, “Commission me to do this.” Nobody. I said “Fine! I’m going to do it myself!”
Laura-Write it anyhow! It needs to happen.
Marisela-Well, I think the timing is right too. It’s just going to take a lot more time than I think a commission could have given me. They just operate on a different timeframe. At least now I can take it slow and do the deep research that’s needed so that it’s done properly.
Laura-That sounds great! I love historical fiction so I’m excited to hear that specific aspect of it. I like those little side stories in history that people don’t really know much about. That’s fun.
Marisela-It’s been great.
Laura-You can do research forever, right? And then you’re like “Wait! I’ve got to stop.”
Marisela-You could do it forever. And I studied history as an undergrad so that comes really easy to me, and I know where to go.
Laura-Well I can’t thank you enough. Thank you so much. And I’m excited to do this and put it on the website. It’s been great to see you and chat with you again.
Marisela-Yes, it has been great to see you too.
